READ THE FORUM AND STOP ASKING THE SAME OLD QUESTIONS!!!! - Page 3

thx

I was thinking about to do this bump myself. lol

this time he got me going. But in one shot got insulted, told to f#$%# of, presented as a jerk and a$$ I don't get often lol

I even told the guy about my signature and the reason that there. nothing. suggested to do research.... nothing suggesting to do the reading..... nothing. Questions and more questions follow that when I give up. At first I thought maybe the language barrier but no privately in e-mail you talk to mean English TO ME IN ENGLISH .... ROFL

they say "every good deed never go unpunished" or something like that lol probably for a reason

this behavior need to be stopped. In my opinion the best way simply to ignore it.

I know as a greenthumb newbie, I shouldn't be posting here.. but as an experienced member of manyother forums I know the problem.

I know I have asked stupid questions.. I did yesterday with the question about timed heat sensors.. The problem as a newbie is there is so much new and so much information and sometimes you don't know the terms to search for, or that things exist that you can buy. Language is often a problem for non English speakers.

I have spent about a year reading things here before getting started.. but once you get down to it all sorts of new stuff pops up, and sometimes you need an answer quickly and don't have time to sit in front of a computer to research.

I enjoy helping others when I can.. and that will come with experience.. so I will be able to help the experienced guys here so bear with us greenhorns.

Maybe to prevent people constantly starting new threads with repeated questions , a sticky general questions thread could be stickied in some topic areas. I tried that with my General Questions thread.. and it worked well for me.

now it starting to get ugly lol

akiwi I disagree. Be dependent on somebody else is bad approach also nobody have to reply. once I waited 2 weeks on one very important matter for me and was no help. Had to figure out everything myself. No big deal is is what it is. you know they say "give the man a fish and he not go hungry to sleep… Learn fishing and you never go hungry again" or something like that

subject of database information was discussed numerous times but it never got anyway

I hope current trend handholding and babysitting will end soon.

Meh. It's annoying, but so is complaining about it.

Just keep it clean in his journal thread please so I don't have to delete stuff.

Every internet forum is like this, and will be for all time. If you don't want to cloud up the forum, don't answer folks who answer repetitive questions. But just as repetitive is people saying "do a search".

If I decide one of these years I want to do some skis with a "please do a search" themed topsheet, I'm gonna be pissed when I have a hard time looking through so many results

Love,

Your sarcastic moderator

I'm all done. Never thought it gonna get this fast this ugly

honestly, I felt insulted for no particular reason . had to reply to set the record straight

that's all

The real prob is for every q there are 12 ways to skin the cat so a wiki wont really do it. But when I started I read for about 3 months straight.

MM exactly.

imo "how-to" should be considered as a guideline not the rule. Those who does not read board before starting probably didn't realize methods described in how-to have problems and those problems discussed elsewhere and the discussions spread all over the place. By doing so beginner unintentionally starting to recycle all those old issues being discussed years ago. Rarely discussion on solutions of those problems get updated. in this situation beginner with no personal experience will constantly run to the board with his quest for help. At most likely here's approach is: I follow instructions in how-to now I have a problem now you all have to help me/tell me what to do.

Additionally I noticed those who with this addiction for a while stop talking about shop, shop improvements, jigs and equipment they build and showing mostly end results living beginner again to recycle old stuff and same cycle continue

I don't think comprehensive wiki guide should be created. imo will be helpful for beginner to know what kind problem he might experience by following how-to instructions (router profiler bridge for example) and it beginner responsibility TO HIMSELF to find a solution not to wait for handout

You know I'm not really an asshole but...

I'm getting so tired of the "what should I do"... threads on SB

It's getting old and when I see the same old questions pop up week after week I just want to snap. Most times I'm patient and will answer civilly, but sometimes I've just had enough of the hand holding.

More and more i see posts that are just stupid questions from somebody who wants someone to hold their hand thru the whole process. Kudos to twizz, he just seems to go with the flow, and maybe i should just ignore them but...

Skibuilders website has gotten most of where we are today and I'm thankful for the resource. Before I even made my first material order I read every post. I spent weeks reading everything, then just did it.

Win or lose I had to try it, and had enough knowledge and smarts to make it work. When it did go south and problems occurred I reread it all again. I couldn't imagine asking for help.

Most of you guys, I think, know what I'm saying. So often these days you see the stupid questions, what should I do to make this or that...

I don't have a problem if someone has a question after they have tried. Brittle epoxy... Ya it's brittle when it's not in the matrix etc...

But when the kid the other day asks for the millionth time how much camber will he lose, I just gotta snap. How the dded will we know! There are so many variables, What I lose and what you lose are not the same and this has been documented over and over. Top heat, bottom heat, no heat, room temp, symmetrical layup?

Once in a while I just have to snap. Hope I didn't piss off anyone here, I could care less if I pissed off the kid. Maybe he'll read the forum and find that there is no answer.

Bottom line...

This is a very valuable resource, but the more asinine posts there are, the harder it is for everyone.

When I started there were a few thousand posts and it took a while, (quite a while) to get thru them all. Now there are more than 4 times the posts and it's harder than ever to get thru them all.

Please use Google to search and then, even if it's an old thread, if it's relevant to your question revive it. Or if you have a question that hasn't been asked start a new thread and ask away.

There is so much information on this site, all the answers are probably there... You are not re-inventing the wheel, search and search again. Google is your friend.

PS...If you are reinventing the wheel I want in on the ground floor!

Respectfully,

sam

> sammer wrote:
When I started there were a few thousand posts and it took a while, (quite a while) to get thru them all. Now there are more than 4 times the posts and it's harder than ever to get thru them all.

This site is really fast growing. The more the posts, the bigger the mess...

It took me 4-5 months to read all the posts. You must have huge patience, because 60-70% of the posts are just bla-bla and it is easy to get bored.

The search tool is not very user-friendly. It does not work very well if you want to find something specific.

So Sam, don`t be so angry. Just don`t answer to those "stupid" questions.

Cheers

Dimitar

Just a hint: it's way easier to use google to search the forum and get relevant results. Just type in your keywords and add "site:skibuilders.com" (e.g. "camber lose site:skibuilders.com"). This will restrict the search to skibuilders.com and yield way better results than the internal forum search function.

> Balkan wrote:

This site is really fast growing. The more the posts, the bigger the mess...

It took me 4-5 months to read all the posts. You must have huge patience, because 60-70% of the posts are just bla-bla and it is easy to get bored.

The search tool is not very user-friendly. It does not work very well if you want to find something specific.

So Sam, don`t be so angry. Just don`t answer to those "stupid" questions.

Cheers

Dimitar

Dimitar...

This is exactly my point, there is so much information buried in the clutter that it makes it very difficult to find the answers you are looking for.

Google search will help a lot. But so will not adding to the clutter if you don't have to.

I'm glad you took the time to read thru it, and yes there is a lot of bla,bla,bla.

What riles me is that the same questions come up again and again. If everyone ignores them then your search will turn up the question but finding the solution may be 3 pages into Google.

All my long winded rant was really saying is...

Read thru the site and if you have a question use Google to search. You will find the answer!

Thanks Chris for the Google tutorial, I made the assumption that Google site search was pretty common knowledge.

sam

Sounds like the best option when you have a question to just pm sammer. Ha.

> Someone give Montuckymadman a medal.

> MontuckyMadman wrote:Sounds like the best option when you have a question to just pm sammer. Ha.

HAHAHA yeah and then copy and paste the response on here. Might be fun reading.

I feel like I missed the party

One point that can cause people to ask a lot of questions rather than just trying something and seeing if it works is the cost of materials.

Not everybody here has easy access to materials and therefore freight costs really add up. I know for myself a snowboard costs over $220 just in materials and takes a couple of weeks for the base, edges, inserts and VDS to come from the U.S. If I order enough for 10 or more I can get material costs down to about $170 - $180.

Obviously some of the questions can easily be answered by some simple research on here or other sites but $200 is a lot for some people to just waste on a trial board or skis.

Wasting money is almost a right of passage in this hobby. When I built my very first pair (which turned out horrible), I was doing it to try to save money because I couldn't afford the powder skis I wanted at the time. Boy was I in for a lesson... It took me probably 4-5 pairs before my skis got really good, all of those pairs only got a few handfuls of days on them before they were retired. Not wasted money, but... still a lot of money!

It's only wasting money when the satisfaction factor is below 50%

The first skis I made were extremely stiff but my reaction when I took them out of the press was, "Holy Shit they look like skis!!"

I could have easily bought a very nice pair of skis (maybe 2 pair) for what it cost to make the first ones. The satisfaction factor for a short period of time was 100%..... Until I made the next pair, then the next pair.....

"excuse me, sir, you cant have that board in the lodge with you"

"i'm sorry, miss, this board does not leave my hands, its worth $10,000.00"

> gav wa wrote:One point that can cause people to ask a lot of questions rather than just trying something and seeing if it works is the cost of materials.

Not everybody here has easy access to materials and therefore freight costs really add up. I know for myself a snowboard costs over $220 just in materials and takes a couple of weeks for the base, edges, inserts and VDS to come from the U.S. If I order enough for 10 or more I can get material costs down to about $170 - $180.

Obviously some of the questions can easily be answered by some simple research on here or other sites but $200 is a lot for some people to just waste on a trial board or skis.

making skis or snowboard at least for the first pair it's not about cost, unless someone have woodworking shop already set up,even then probably additional cost involved.

Don't know about snowboards decent pair skis can be bought for a couple hundred dollars and approach to ski building only from cost perspective is wrong. I'm not saying go out and buy most expensive tools and materials. If beginner have no tools couple hundred doesn't get you far..... well even couple thousands might not be enough if not being careful with spending.... It took me long time to buy all needed tools from Craigslist and eBay for decent price. If not for that I wouldn't be even starting because initial cost is way too high if by all tools at the retail price.

In the beginning amount information is overwhelming and probably people want somebody to get them through, tell them what to do, holds there hands. Nothing wrong with asking. imo wrong to answer over and over again.

sometimes search criteria bring in too many results. I see if asking about help to narrow search..... Then again if the person take time to read ENTIRE board he shouldn't be asking.

IMO is enough information here to build snowboard/skis without asking a single question

I think it's time to resurrect this thread. Recently looks like something change. When same question asked AGAIN instead of politely or not so suggested to read the forum nowadays is opposite. Where old MM when you need one lol

> MadRussian wrote: Where old MM when you need one lol

Meh. I gave up.

> MontuckyMadman wrote:
> MadRussian wrote: Where old MM when you need one lol

Meh. I gave up. don't give up we need you

you used to drive me nuts. In reality those not answered questions drive me to find my own way of doing things instead of waiting for someone throw you a bone

I believe those people who contribute NOTHING to the site and asking same stupid questions over and over again sometimes using multiple threads about their "problem" should be IGNORED

Ya, I thought about this the other day as I was responding to one.

Don't know what got into me.

sam

There is so much great info on here, and every once and awhile when the same question comes up again there is some new information added, like a new take on a process a new supplier or such.

I agree that the site is getting harder to navigate to find what you need, but there has got to be a better solution then just letting it build up this way and referring newbies to google searching

It *could* probably work out alright if there were more stickies at the top of the forums. These threads could each address all the questions that come up again and again. When someone makes a new post asking the same question, a moderator could move it to being a reply post in the proper sticky thread. Then delete the new thread.

As new topics become recurring, new stickies could be made to condense them all into one thread so that only truly new posts are listed below.

Keeping the clutter down while at the same time allowing for open dialogue and continued conversations is a great goal.

This would be nicer then just shutting down any question asking. Sometimes there are new questions that sound very similar to old questions. Sometimes there are new answers. Obviously we all know how hard it can be to try and find that thing you read 6 months ago on this site so its not totally the fault of newbies who have to sift through thousands of post to find their answers.

I would be happy to volunteer some time searching through whats already here and helping to compile stickies for the worst repeat questions.

In other news... I saw this pic today and got a total snow hard on.

https://imgur.com/2PHQODl

Hitting Fernie first chair tomorrow morning for my first day of the season! Its been a dismal snow situation up here in BC so far.

> LifeisRiding wrote:I agree that the site is getting harder to navigate to find what you need, but there has got to be a better solution then just letting it build up this way and referring newbies to google searching.

Well spoken :)

The idea with the stickies ain't bad.

Another thing that causes more work at the beginning but surely is the premium solution is to add a Wiki to this site, where the most frequent topics are covered well. Just the important info (why? and how?), without a lot of discussion that is more confusion than help to newbies.

The discussions in these long threads are surely one of the reasons why questions are re-asked even if those threads are found. So much discussion around the facts that its just too much for someone not familiar with the topic.

Perhaps some eager newbies can be found that gather the information and write it down in an article - would be nice, wouldn't it?

I like the idea of more organization/stickies. The main SkiBuilders.com website has a pretty great how-to section that Kam/Kelvin put together many years ago. It was great then, but lots of the methods many of us old-timers use now have evolved over the years and that website doesn't really reflect the current status-quo for home builder methods.

There are a few things that could be done:

- Sticky threads that act as "indexes", with links to valuable threads that either contain lots of discussion, or maybe just some basic valuable information

- Sticky threads that are newly-written "guides", something similar to the How-To section on the main SB site, just updated - this would need to be a slightly collaborative effort, maybe initially done outside the forum and once polished up posted, as every one of us does things slightly differently.

- Or the easy cop-out, sticky threads that inspire/encourage people to do their research and reading before posting with very basic/rudimentary questions.

Of course this all assumes I can figure out how to make a thread a sticky?

> pmg wrote:
Perhaps some eager newbies can be found that gather the information and write it down in an article - would be nice, wouldn't it?

Problem is eager newbies don't understand why certain methods are done the way they are, so they may leave out very important details because they don't have the experience/tribal knowledge to back up the process. I think this would need to be headed up by the more experienced folks. Problem there is most of us don't have time!

Well,

what I can think of is more like having the article framework madee by someone experienced, and then let it be filled up by different persons.

E.g. "Flame treatment of plastics"

- Why to flame treat plastics

- How to:

* What can you use for flaming

* when to flame

* how to test if flame treatment worked

- See how other builders do it (links to posts/threads)

- Useful web resources (e.g. the crown plastic videos)

- Interesting discussions in the forum

This is a rough structure, but imo has a place for all information you would want to find on that topic. Then some people would just have to invest a bit of work once, and this could partly be newbies (I am a newbie on flaming, thats why I took this topic).

Cheers

When I started in 2007, I loved the "HOWTO-section it really gave me the kick to start building. I realized pretty quick that it was just ONE way of doing it and register to the forum and found a lot of other ways of doing things. Sometimes you find it by searching the forum and sometimes by asking and sometimes by figuring out by self. That should be the case even now.

I have to admit that I have been a jerk in some posts coming with idiotic questions and suggestions. But this ski building bizz have gotten me carried away several times....in all directions

I now have a setup that I'm very pleased with and needs very little adjustments and everything has evolved from here!(more or less...

)

Happy new building year!

I think sticky is a great idea. It will take a lot of time and effort to write new "how-to" and imo not necessary. Original "how to" can be used as a guideline.imo beginners sometimes take how to section literally and unknowingly start to recycling old problems.

IMO best and simplest way would be to start separate sticky on different subjects which will compile over time similarly to sticky about layup/factory tour video" or "DIY silicone blanket" where everybody contribute over time. Also can be compiled links to threads or individual posts related to the subject of the sticky.

Do you think it would be better to write the sticky threads as fairly detailed guides, and then lock them so there are no discussions? Or leave them open for people to discuss/question/argue/etc?

I'm wondering if only admins can make threads stickies? I can't seem to figure out how to do it as a moderator.

how to have enough information to get understanding what involved in process to make the skis. I think not necessarily in form of "beginners guide how to make skis" lol but more important to have references resource for ALL of us to use (thread about silicone blankets good example) including beginners. Detailed guide is nice but I believe is not necessary and time-consuming to make. IMO ski maker is a skill which take time to develop and no guide can help develop needed skills

I think open forum where people can discuss and contribute the best. again this should be done not ONLY to help beginners but most importantly as a references for ALL builders

The thing is: If you are new to anything here (not just skibuilding in general, but maybe also a part of skibuilding like building a press), you find so damn much information by searching that its very easy to get confused. And after hours of reading and more and more confusion happens what? Yes of course - a new thread is started where the newbie can clear up all his confusions.

So I would try to build stickies that gather basic information (why? what different possibilities to do this are there?) and link a lot of additional information there.

E.g. building a press:

* 2 ways to do it

- vacuum

- pressure

* Pros and Cons of both methods

* links to threads where you can see how others built vacuum presses

* links to threads where you can see how others built pressure presses

Discussion may be needed but if there is too much it destroys the clarity of such a thread.

IMO the confusion when finding too much information is the main reason why people search little and ask a lot.

When creating information to help people that have (much) less experience its always useful not to think in information that you could provide but in questions. This will lead to a clear view on which information is important and which is not.

Press is unique subject once it constructed properly there are no need to make modifications. Everything else constantly evolving.

Beginner sometimes don't understand if not familiar with anything what's involved to make skis namely woodworking, welding, toolmaking and metal fabrication. First they should familiarize themselves with those or at least have a friend who can help.

> pmg wrote:When creating information to help people that have (much) less experience its always useful not to think in information that you could provide but in questions. This will lead to a clear view on which information is important and which is not.

I believe sometimes people fail to understand in the beginning. this is expensive and VERY DANGEROUS hobby. they need to learn how to operate equipment and operate it safely.

This 2 subjects alone will cut number of questions probably in half

Overall I like your framework.

Bump for M.R.

You're starting to sound like me!

sam