Here's a mad experiment that seems to work. - Page 2

> nearls wrote:Been curious about cutting fish scales into the ptex of a split deck. Cross country skis still seem pretty fast going downhill. Could possibly use a router jig to cut a similar pattern to yours huck, just couldn't be as pronounced due to ptex thickness. Could still have the option to put skins on when the trail rears up and you really need them. Ditching the skins would be pretty sweet on the change overs. +1 for short and stout boards here too. Quick turns in tight places.

The router jig is worth a try. Leaving smooth p-tex along the edges would make a better seal so snow doesn't get under the skins.

I'm wondering if we could rout p-tex stock and temporarily stick to the board with double sided tape or something for tests. It would be nice to try a base with less scales.

The scales have already been done. Many years ago. Forget the thread, but it's here if you look for it. I think someone may have mentioned it already in this thread.

Here is a link to our fishscale skis. We will have a video up soon showing them in use.

http://www.7bskis.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=57

Thanks for the link. I'm still braining on my board for next season. I think it'll have a pocket in the base for a section of skin right under your foot when climbing. And some fishscales in strategic places. I tried making scales with a razor sharp chisel and they came out really slick. No fuzzy edges from routing. That way I can add more if I start out with too few.

Ps Your skiis look REALLY nice but the routed scales look a bit slow in the way they don't blend into the running surface.

Not sure what you are seeing, the scales do flush out. The router jig is on an angle that puts a 1mm at the front to flush at the rear scale in the base. of course any time you do something that compromises a perfectly smooth base you will cause drag and slow down the ski, but this is most noticeable on groomed runs. I rarely notice much difference in powder where these are meant to be.

Good luck with your project.

I agree powder doesn't drag much. I tried going downhill with skins on my board and was happy how well it slid.

The trailing edge of your scale pockets meet the running surface of the base with an angle instead of a smooth transition. As long as you're happy with them that's all that matters.

You may use just a flat wooden base without fish-style shape. If you make a special-type of steps when going uphill, skis will not lose cohesion with show.

There is two secrets for it:

1. When you raise a ski, do it carefully and perpendicularly to snow surface without sliding

2. Powerfully put a ski on the snow, with hearable clap.

After several of such steps, there will be certain amount of adhered snow to a ski surface, that will prevent it from sliding. After a certain practice, you will be climbing rather steep slopes. It does not depends on a temperature.

First time poster here trying to play catch up, but has anyone found base material with the 'positive' fish scales?

or

Has anyone tried making their own bases with positive fish scales?

My thought has been to make a mold with negative fish scales (plunge router), heat up the kick-zone of a base, and press the scales into the base.

fish scale test b 001 by Huck Pitueee, on Flickr

Some European company supplys fishscale. Someone one Skibuilders posted where. Here's this years test. Hand cut steps. Great for getting around on very low angle stuff. Skins just rule in all conditions. The drag of scales isn't worth it. I did have a fun pow day on the first test board a while back. Climbs fine, goes down allright in pow. It was nice not to deal with skins and the board felt really light climbing.

> Huck Pitueee wrote:http://vimeo.com/38662068

Here's todays test. Low visibility so I couldn't cut loose. So in sticky fresh snow the skinless climbed well but felt about 15% more drag on the downhill. At 2 minutes in the vid I switch to the 135cm full rockered board made for these conditions. Very fun to ride. It is really similar to a true fish surfboard.

So when you make the switch, what did you do with the other deck?

> knightsofnii wrote:
> Huck Pitueee wrote:http://vimeo.com/38662068

Here's todays test. Low visibility so I couldn't cut loose. So in sticky fresh snow the skinless climbed well but felt about 15% more drag on the downhill. At 2 minutes in the vid I switch to the 135cm full rockered board made for these conditions. Very fun to ride. It is really similar to a true fish surfboard.

So when you make the switch, what did you do with the other deck?

I left the test board at the bottom and used the other board with skins for climbing.

For back country you need skins for climbing and they are slow to apply and remove. They have some issues like snow sticks to them and they get heavy when wet. The tough part is being on an exposed ridge changing these sticky strips in a 50 mph wind.

So here's an alternative.

http://vimeo.com/38129760

This was a quick and dirty test on a crusty day that got me up a favorite hill and try a few turns. Now the burning stoke to build a real test board. This hobby is endless!! Why the bare wood base for a test? The epoxy I used never hardened even after baking it so I said F it and washed off what I could and waxed the bastid!

holy shit....

that is awesome, how did it ride on the way down?. i have been thinking about cnc cutting scales under the middle 2/3 of the snowboard so we dont need skins (less expensive, less to carry). but to see this done in wood, total proof.

keep working on rad shit.

tom

The wood was pretty sticky by the time I went down but it had insane edge grip on that crust. Even with the redwood getting all rounded over. I need to do more testing but in pow it should ride fine. It had sweet glide when touring. Way more than skins.

I'm thinking about having no scales within an inch of the edge and maybe having few or none under your feet when riding. But for climbing I'd have a few under the climbing bracket that have no glide flat. Those steps on the test all have 1.5 inch of flat for glide. They also have a radiused entry like the nose of your board.

test004 by Huck Pitueee, on Flickr

test002 by Huck Pitueee, on Flickr

I originally thought of this for those really sticky days to break the suction and have less wetted surface area. Hopefully I can scrape that test base and get a few layers of epoxy to stick for more testing.

Cool design. How fast is the board on the downhill slide compared to a standard deck?

Sorry I don't have an answere. All the wax rubbed off the test base on the climb so I was down to wet bare wood for the DH. On the short run on the crust it felt draggy for good reason. On the climb there was a short flat downhill section and it felt about twice as slick as skins. That was shown in the first few seconds of the vid. I think once you get flying in pow it'll be fine.

I took a run in pow with my skins on a while back and and when it got a cushion of air under the board it slid pretty well.

It's guaranteed a stepped base will never slide as well as smooth but I hope to get it close enough to be acceptable for me. I just wonder how shallow a step to cut in the base and still have it climb. I'm thinking almost as deep as the ptex. Thoughts anyone?

Leaving the edges clear is a great idea.

Strange: G-man has posted on this subject - so may be worth a read.

Thanks I found that supplier. And tried to find Gmans threads. Rockaucum had some insight.

http://vimeo.com/38662068

Here's todays test. Low visibility so I couldn't cut loose. So in sticky fresh snow the skinless climbed well but felt about 15% more drag on the downhill. At 2 minutes in the vid I switch to the 135cm full rockered board made for these conditions. Very fun to ride. It is really similar to a true fish surfboard.

Sorry, but I just can't take anything you say seriously when you are riding a 135cm board in powder.

You're barely moving on that thing. That's a kids board.

Get on a gun, and you'll understand.

Yea I hear you. That was a lame test on a flat slope and riding blind. I posted that for a coulpe guys who were interested in how much drag there was. I have a 168cm that's pretty fun but the 133cm is still more fun. Have you seen the size of the boards guys are using for no boarding?

I take those people very seriously. I posted a link to a vid recently that's inspiring.

This.

http://www.splitboard.com/index.php/fea ... -the-woods

I'll take my 176cm out if you try a mini board! I already know how that rides.

I hear ya. I know short boards can be fun. It's just not my thing.

I did ride a 146 on a pow day once and I had a good time, but I have a lot more fun going fast.

no boarding is a bit different. I don't think I would want to be going 50mph without binders.

Anyway, your boards are beautiful, and it's great that you keep thinking outside the box. I wonder if a stepped P tex base would work? Obviously the concept is legit considering the wood works so well on the uphill.

Hopefully someone one ups me on the idea. We can make them climb well but drag on the ride down is the tough one to crack. Going 50 is great for lift accessed stuff but for back country you tend to savor every inch of elevation you climb. It's kind of a dumb sport but it's what we do.

> Huck Pitueee wrote:Hopefully someone one ups me on the idea. We can make them climb well but drag on the ride down is the tough one to crack. Going 50 is great for lift accessed stuff but for back country you tend to savor every inch of elevation you climb. It's kind of a dumb sport but it's what we do.

I have to agree with you there. Whenever I hike for my turns in the bc, I tend to make it last with lots of turns. The whole pace is much slower versus the crazy powder feeding frenzy at the resorts here.

Been curious about cutting fish scales into the ptex of a split deck. Cross country skis still seem pretty fast going downhill. Could possibly use a router jig to cut a similar pattern to yours huck, just couldn't be as pronounced due to ptex thickness. Could still have the option to put skins on when the trail rears up and you really need them. Ditching the skins would be pretty sweet on the change overs. +1 for short and stout boards here too. Quick turns in tight places.